Interview for "Deep Listenings" with Chuck van Zyl
by Gianluigi Gasparetti, June 27th, 1994 (edited)
[NOTE: the section of this interview most related to The Nightcrawlers is
indicated in a red font (like this). --Steven Feldman]
Let's start with your beginnings, your favorite groups, your musical
ideas, etc.
CVZ: I was born in 1958 and my parents were old. My Mother was 42 and my
Father 49. There was always music in our house, old time music from
their generation. It was on the radio, the television and the phonograph
all the time. Mom loved to sing and Dad did, too, a bit, but he was
better at playing his mandolin. He liked Jazz and Big Bands, she liked
music with vocals. Eventually, I grew out of this influence, but I was
left with an appreciation of melody, harmony, rhythm and timbre.
My record collection started with some classical music, War, Pink
Floyd and on and on. I was into what is now referred to in the states as
"classic rock." I collected albums by all the big groups and listened
very closely to them. In 1977, I started working at a student-run
college radio station called WDCR. My shows started out featuring
Lynyrd Skynyrd, Outlaws, Eagles, etc. Later, I moved on to yes, Genesis,
Kansas, Styx, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, ELP, etc. While I was at WDCR, I
met people that told me about some groups I'd never heard of before:
Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Jane, Be Bop Deluxe, Gong, Van Der Graff.
Also, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Kraftwerk, Cluster, etc. These
groups were rarely heard anywhere on the radio here. I wanted to learn
more about them. I began going to obscure record shops and looking
through their import bins. I found many wonderful albums by groups that
only a few of my friends had ever heard of. One of my friends from WDCR
told me to listen to another college radio station. The station was
WXPN. I was told that their programs were full of the kind of music that
I was looking for. It was difficult listening at first because the music
that WXPN was playing was very strange to my ears. I'd never heard
anything like it before. They were playing everything from John Cage to
Heldon, Miles Davis to Philip Glass, Ash Ra Tempel to Faust, Vangelis to
Art Zoyd, and more. The more I listened, the more I learned. I'll never
forget the day I was driving home from WDCR listening to WXPN on the
radio in my car when "Stardancer" by Klaus Schulze began to come out of
the speakers. It was the most exciting piece of music that I'd ever
heard. Something clicked inside me. That moment changed my life. I've
been totally fascinated with music and sound created by the synthesizer
ever since.
Once I was hooked on Klaus Schulze, my course followed that of many
other enthusiasts: Tangerine Dream, Popol Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel, Kraftwerk,
Jean Michel-Jarre, Heldon, Earthstar, Eno, Mark Shreeve, Neuronium, Terry
Riley, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Michael Stearns, to name but a few. In
early 1980, I became a radio host on WXPN and began learning even more
while producing radio programs and working with the knowledgeable staff
(among them, John Dilberto and Kimberly Hass, more recently of "Echoes").
I continue to work at WXPN and am still influenced by all the music that
I am exposed to.
What do you think about today's EM scene?
CVZ: Over the last few years, there has been an explosion of new EM being
released on CD. It is an exciting time to be involved in EM. There are
many new people on the scene with new ideas and new attitudes. New
genres are being created. People from all walks of life, from all over
the world are becoming involved. Many young people (teenagers) are
producing their own kind of EM. The younger generation is being heard
and influencing the established artists (and vice versa). It is a great
time.
I know that you work as a DJ in a radio station; tell me something about
your program.
CVZ: I am host of a radio program called "Star's End." The show can be
heard on 88.5FM WXPN Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and on 90.5FM WKHS
Worton, Maryland (WKHS reaches into the Baltimore, MD area) every
Saturday night into Sunday morning from 1:00AM until 6:00AM. "Star's
End" has been on WXPN for around 18 years. I have been host since 1980.
The purpose of the show is more than to just entertain the listener. The
audience is invited leave their radios on in their bedrooms at a low
volume throughout the night. The music that I present is very spacey,
floating, soothing and relaxing. I try to include as many different
types of music and genres as possible, yet keep within the quiet music
format. A listener will hear: jazz, avant-garde, classical, ambient
house, low intensity noise/industrial, new age, traditional
international, world fusion and, of course, a wide variety of electronic
artists. Some playlists from past "Star's End" programs have been
enclosed for you to get an idea of the scope of the show. Announcements
are kept to a minimum, just often enough to let everyone know what
stations they're listening to and what selections were broadcast during
the preceding hour.
The music of "Star's End" has an effect on the listeners as they
sleep. They can incorporate the music into their dreams. I often get
calls from people who just awoke from a strange dream and want to tell me
of the experience. Last year, I attended a seminar about "Music in
Healing." I was told by a graduate student that there is no research
about what happens to people when they listen to spacemusic while they
sleep and that when someone listens to "Star's End" while in a sleep
state, they are taking part in an uncontrolled experiment.
"Star's End" is also appreciated by students up late studying,
artists working on their craft, and people that must work overnight.
But, the purpose of "Star's End" is even more than just to relax stressed
out people and perhaps give some listeners weird dreams. Another purpose
is to permit people to experience music that is typically very difficult
to gain access to on the normal mainstream radio stations. Listeners are
exposed to music that is conceptually very different from what they are
familiar with. Often, first time listeners will call in and remark that
they are astonished that this music even exists, let alone that it is
being broadcast on a radio station. This is a very important facet of
"Star's End." I am proof of this. If I'd not heard Klaus Schulze on
WXPN so many years ago, I would have never learned that there was an
entire world of music alternative to the mainstream available and waiting
for me to experience.
WXPN is what is known in the States as a non-profit radio station.
This means that the station does not get funding from paid advertisements
(as almost all of the other radio stations in the country do). The
station gets a percentage of the operating budget from the listening
audience by doing fundraisers a few times a year. As you can imagine, it
is difficult to get listeners to pledge money when they know that they
do not have to. No one can make them; there is no law. Many people feel
that someone else (another, more generous listener) will take the
responsibility. Over the years, "Star's End" has always done very well
during these station fundraisers. The listeners realize that the show
and the station will no doubt cease to exist without their support. This
is their incentive. Recently, I've changed my approach to fundraising on
"Star's End." Rather than playing some much loved or rare music between
pitches, I've been asking artists featured on the show to call in to be
interviewed live on the air. This has been working out great. I've
enclosed some cassettes with excerpts of interviews for you to listen to
(Steve Roach, Robert Rich, Michael Stearns, Michael Garrison, Jeff
Greinke, Jonn Serrie, Thom Brennan, John Dyson, Ian Boddy, Robert Fox and
David Wright). The "Star's End" audience appreciates the insightful look
at the artists that they've become familiar with through the show. As
for me, I feel that I get the same if not better results and can enjoy a
break from the traditional form of fundraising; constant pitching . . .
When I first started at WXPN, back in 1980, there was a great
electronic/new music scene in Philadelphia, fostered by the radio
station. Now, all these years later, there is none to speak of.
Recently, I've been attempting to revive the scene with some live
concerts sponsored by "Star's End." The name "Star's End Gathering"
seems to fit. It is not only a way to hear live spacemusic, but also a
way for all the "Star's End" listeners, from all walks of life, to gather
together and meet one another face to face. I've presented two
gatherings so far and have been very pleased with the way that things
have been progressing. At the first gathering, my group XISLE performed
live. At the second, we had the good fortune of seeing Jeff Greinke (all
the way from Seattle, Washington) in concert. I will be producing more
"Gatherings" in the future.
As I said before, WXPN is a non-profit community radio station. I
volunteer my time to the station to produce "Star's End." I do not get
any pay (in fact, it usually costs me money). Producing "Star's End" is
a very rewarding experience. It is a great opportunity for me to meet
like-minded individuals, and I enjoy bringing music to the audience,
music that they usually cannot hear anywhere else. I do the show every
week with the hope that it is making a difference to someone, whether it
be a listener exposed to something that they've never heard of before, or
an artist that is not sure if his or her music will ever be notice by
anyone.
If you or anyone out else out there knows of any radio show that is
anything like "Star's End," as I've described it, please let me know.
I'd be very interested in getting in touch with the host and exchanging
ideas.
What about your friendship and collaboration with the Gulch brothers?
CVZ: When I first started at WXPN, the station promoted live concerts by
local electronic musicians. We had a great scene. Groups like: The
Ghostwriters, The Atomic Thinkers, Aural Prism, Tangent, Paul Woznicki,
Darren Kearns, and The Nightcrawlers performed live concerts on a regular
basis. We played their tapes on the radio and conducted interviews with
the groups to get people interested in the EM scene. I saw Tom and Peter
Gulch, of The Nightcrawlers, at their concerts, but it wasn't until they
came to WXPN for an interview that we actually met. Dave Lunt (the third
Nightcrawler) almost never came to the radio interviews because he was
too shy. As the years passed, Peter, Tom, Dave and I became good
friends. When there was a concert, I would stay afterwards to help load
the truck. I always had many questions about music and especially about
synthesizers. They encouraged me to buy a synthesizer a try my hand at
programming it. If I did not have this influence, I may have never
become involved with creating my own music. Tom, Peter and Dave were my
mentors, advisors, tutors and inspiration. I bought a Korg MP-4 from a
friend and, needless to say, ever after that, synthesizers and the mode
of expression they offer me became my focus.
I first started playing live with Tom in 1985. We called our group
"XISLE" (pronounced "exile") and did several concerts of spacemusic
anywhere we could. About a year later, Tom and I decided that we were
still friends, but couldn't work together anymore. I asked Peter if he
was interested in joining D.A. Rath and me in XISLE. He said yes and the
three of us have been doing live concerts together ever since. I've
always liked Peter very much as a person and as a synthesist, but since
we began working together in XISLE, I've come to learn a great deal more
about him. Peter is a remarkable person. He is one of the few people
that I can count on completely. Peter is strong willed and has a good
heart. He is very enthusiastic about our music. It is amazing when
XISLE plays together. It is more than mere improvisation. There are few
words between us; somehow, we communicate through our synths using sound.
It is unfortunate that due to a physical ailment, Tom Gulch is no
longer able to play with The Nightcrawlers. This is why they have not
been releasing much music recently.
How did you reach Dave Shoesmith of C&D Services? Are you planning new
releases with them in the future?
CVZ: As any underground musician will tell you, it is important that you
get your music out to as many key people possible. When my tape,
"Callisto," was released, I sent out many promotional copies. One of the
people that received a copy was Andy Garabaldi of Mike Lloyd Music in the
U.K. Any liked the tape so much that he sold some for me through MLM and
played it for his friend Dave Shoesmith of C&D Services. Dave liked it
very much, too, but thought that more people would be interested in my
music if it were out on CD. Dave wrote to me and explained the
situation. Eventually, Dave offered to release "Callisto" and "The
Moment of Totality" on one CD. For a time, it was to have been released
on the Surreal to Real label, but finally, it worked out that Dave
started his own "Centaur" label. The resulting release is titled
"Celestial Mechanics." There are many spacemusic enthusiasts that still
enjoy the style of music I'm producing, but there are few E-Musicians
doing it anymore. Dave is aware of this, and filled the niche by
releasing my CD. The fact that I'm from the States is of little
importance.
Dave is interested in a second VAN ZYL release on Centaur. I'll be
beginning work on this project soon.
What is the direction you're going in now? Are you planning new sound
explorations?
CVZ: I am influenced by many, many things: travel, astronomy, art,
science fiction, cinema and obviously, all manner of music and sound.
The spacemusic I realize in my studio allows me to express how I am
feeling in a way that I have not been able to do using words. I want my
music to take the listener from the real world to the world of their
imagination, to a place gotten to only by listening to one of my
recordings. As long as I am alive and able to live my life, I'll be
incorporating everything I experience into my music.
My next CD is a collaborative work with Peter Gulch entitled:
"Regeneration Mode" (Synkronos). On this CD, we have crossed and
incorporated many genres: low intensity industrial, new age,
sequencer/pattern, spacemusic, ambient and one or two of our own design.
This is the direction I am going in.
Please list your musical equipment.
CVZ: It doesn't matter how much equipment one has. The only things that
matter are ideas . . .
Korg: Wavestation A/D, EX-8000, MP-4, SQD-1
Oberheim: Xpander, Matrix 6, Matrix 6R
Roland: MKS-80, CSQ-100, SVC-350
Alesis: HR16, MT8, Midiverb III, Microverb
Ensoniq: EPS 16 Plus Turbo, DP4
DigiTech 7.6 Time Machine
Tascam: 122, DA30, M34
Lexicon: LXP-5, ALEX
Mackie: 1604, 1202
Yamaha TX81Z
Kawai K4R
MXR 1500
JBL 4408
Hafler XL280
What about your live activity?
CVZ: Here is a list of all the live concerts I've performed with XISLE:
March 8, 1986: The Creative Underground, New Brunswick, NJ (visuals by
Wave)
March 21, 1986: The Nexus Gallery, Philadelphia, PA
July 3rd, 1986: WXPN Studio, Philadelphia, PA (live on the air)
July 12, 1986: The Painted Bride, Philadelphia, PA (with full blown light
show by Wave)
December 6, 1986: The Asbury Methodist Church, Philadelphia, PA (XISLE
opened for The Nightcrawlers, with 250 attending)
March 20, 1987: The Painted Bride, Philadelphia, PA (the 6 member XISLE)
July 3, 1987: WXPN Studio, Philadelphia, PA (solo live on the air)
December 5, 1987: Stockton State College, Pomona, NJ (XISLE opened for
Jesse Clark)
January 22, 1988: Delaware County Community College, Marple, PA (w/big TV
computer graphics)
July 23, 1987: The Novins Planetarium, Tom's River, NJ (under the dome
with full visual effects)
October 15, 1987: New Directions, Doylestown, PA (with full blown light
show by Wave)
October 20, 1987: The Tabernacle, Philadelphia, PA (XISLE opened for The
Nightcrawlers)
March 31, 1987: Middlesex County College, Edison, NJ (with full blown
light show by Wave)
May 6, 1989: The Tabernacle, Philadelphia, PA
April 7, 1990: The Open Space Gallery, Allentown, PA (Arteck opened)
October 14, 1990: The Tabernacle, Philadelphia, PA (Arteck opened)
November 18, 1989: The Novins Planetarium, Tom's River, NJ (under the
dome with full visual effects)
October 13, 1990: Community Education Center, Philadelphia, PA (full
blown slide show, w/ Art & Jack Hurwitz)
November 9, 1990: Small Computer And The Arts Network Symposium,
Philadelphia, PA (w/ computer graphics)
May 5, 1991: Middlesex County College, Edison, NJ (we drove 95 miles each
way, 2 people showed up)
November 15, 1991: SCAN Symposium, Philadelphia, PA
May 9, 1992: The Star's End Gathering, Philadelphia, PA (audience of
radio show listeners)
October 3, 1992: The Novins Planetarium, Tom's River, NJ (under the dome
with full visual effects)
November 7, 1992: SCAN Symposium, Philadelphia, PA (TV wall with computer
generated graphics)
We really like playing live. It is great to see the audience
reactions. Often, a performance unattainable in a studio can be drawn
from us. It is always a challenge.
What are the main differences between electronic music in the 70's and in
the 90's?
CVZ: There are many differences, but the most obvious difference to me is
the number of people putting out electronic music. When the genre was
first being born, only a select few had access to the equipment necessary
to make EM and the resources to release it for public consumption. These
pioneers made a huge impact on the world of music. They wer exploring
uncharted territories. Few prior to this had the means that a
synthesizer offers to create the sounds and timbres that were then being
experimented with. The world had not ever known anything like it before.
In the 90's, we see many more artists making EM partly because EM is now
taken for granted (it's everywhere and almost everyone knows what it is,
on some level) but also because, over the years, the technology has
become cheaper and at the same time more powerful. Technology is an
important factor in EM. The more complex and versatile the equipment
becomes, the wider the range of artistic expression. In one sense, the
genre is driven by technology, but not totally. The people using the
synthesizers are the most vital part. We are using the technology as a
means of expression. I am glad to see that so many people are now able
to create music. Without this technology, we would be silent, unable to
communicate.
Tell me something about the artistic evolution of XISLE and XYL.
CVZ: The music that I now produce grew out of an increasing desire to
find some way to better express myself. I've always had various hobbies
and interests, and they are rewarding in their own way, but I cannot
remember ever feeling the same kind of emotion that can come from music,
whether as a listener or as a maker. For me, making music and making
money are two mutually exclusive ideas. Financial gain does not motivate
me. Nor do I consider myself a musician; I am a synthesist. The primary
reason I make music is because I have to; I cannot not do it. It is my
voice. It is the way I express feelings about my perception of reality.
Those strange spacey sounds from my music, that unsettling tonal quality
of my compositions -- you're hearing them, but I'm feeling them.
Performing live is a challenging experience; anything can go
physically wrong: crashing synths, bad cables, burned out amps, blown
speakers, 60 cycle hum, power outages, blown fuses, rowdy neighbors, heat
prostration, getting locked out of a gig, breaking the window to get in,
thievery, personnel problems, going "in the red" (losing money) and on
and on. Besides all that, the challenge for me is this; when I play
live, I lay it all on the line. It is a very vulnerable position. My
music is very personal. I want the audience to be absorbed (or at least
interested) in what I'm doing. I want to provide each audience member
with their own unique experience. Few people have the opportunity to
attend the kind of spacemusic concerts that I give with XISLE. Reactions
vary. Some people are amazed, others asleep and others bored, but they
all leave with something to ponder.
It seems that in this age dominated by electronics, anyone can sit and
play good music; I know a lot of good musicians with no classical
training. What do you think about this situation?
CVZ: I think that any person has the right to try and make music, whether
using a truckload of electronic gear or a penny whistle. Yes, it is true
that anyone with some money can buy a few synths, learn the basics and
release their own CD. I've heard my share of uninspired work from these
kind of people. But hopefully, serious artists will use the medium as a
genuine means of expression. Since the technology is so readily
available to all kinds of different people, we are now witnessing
talented new artists emerging from their long silence.
When a person first gets involved with making their own EM, often
they do not take the time to really learn what their instrument is fully
capable of. It is a fact that most synth owners do not even bother to
learn how to program their own sounds. For me, this is what synthesis is
all about: revealing new timbres, not just producing melody, harmony and
rhythm. The synths of today are sonically capable of so much, yet many
musicians seem satisfied to use the presets that have been provided to
them by the factory. I sometimes use factory presets in my compositions
(usually modified in some way), but I prefer creating my own patches and
samples. I think that this is the whole reason to own a synthesizer or a
sampler.
In the future, I'm sure that more and more people will continue to
try their hand at EM. With new people will come new (and hopefully
interesting) ideas. I look forward to all the new contributions to the
field.
Your future projects.
CVZ: With regard to the radio show, "Star's End," I'm making it available
(on tape) to other radio stations. Interested parties should please
contact me. There are many more E-Musicians that I want to interview for
the show, and I'll continue to produce the "Star's End Gatherings," too.
I'm also beginning to bring the music of "Star's End" to area clubs.
With regard to my music, "Regeneration Mode" should be released soon
on Synkronos. After that, Peter and I will work on our second CD,
"Stardust," also on Synkronos.
As far as performing live with XISLE goes, I'm planning to play at
the next "Star's End Gathering" sometime this Fall. I hope that in 1995
we'll be able to play at one of the festivals overseas (EMMA, KLEM Dag,
etc.).
And of course, I intend to continue to experience my life here on
Earth and relay my impressions to the rest of you through my music.
Thanks for listening . . .
Contact:
Chuck van Zyl
P.O. Box 22
Upper Darby, PA 19082-0022
U.S.A.
This page first constructed by Steven Feldman
<scfeldman@juno.com>
4/28/00. Last update: 10/17/01.
